Podcast

Rethinking the "terrible" twos

June O'Sullivan, Early Years teachers, and terrific twos
Your hosts
Julia Rose and Matt Arnerich
Matt and Julia with June O'Sullivan
August 27, 2025
Episode length:
58
min.

In this episode, you’ll...

  • Hear why June banned the word "practitioner" in favour of "teacher"
  • Listen to how LEYF supports a social justice pedagogy
  • Discover June's secret knowledge of London bus routes
  • Be inspired to learn more about the amazing development that happens around two years old
  • Find out about June's Early Years ick

This week’s guest

June O'Sullivan OBE
June O'Sullivan OBE
CEO of the London Early Years Foundation

Dr June O'Sullivan is the CEO of the London Early Years Foundation. June has headed projects involving intergenerational care, parents in prisons, sustainability, bringing more men into the EY sector, engaging dads, ratios, Ofsted, the role of chefs, and many, many more. June has an OBE for services to education, recently got her doctorate in developing sustainability sustainability, informed staff, and has co authored many, many guides and books, including the Twoness of Twos.

For the watchers

For the listeners

Teachers not practitioners

"We are early years teachers. And I wish we would accept and own and embrace that language more confidently," says June. She explains why they eliminatied the term "practitioner" at LEYF in 2017, noting the significant morale boost it gave to staff. Instead of "practitioner" in Early Years education, June promotes "teacher" or "early years teacher" to accurately reflect their role and expertise.

"Teaching is what we do," says June, "If your role is a manager, you're still an Early Years teacher underneath it all. And I don't like that snobbery about, 'You can be a practitioner because you're in PVI and you can be a teacher because you're in the school.'"

Social justice pedagogy

June discusses the influence of John Carnochan on her thinking, particularly regarding the importance of Early Years education and community engagement in reducing violence and crime. She emphasises the need for Early Years settings to be social enterprises, deeply engaged with their communities, and understanding the child's background to support families holistically.

"Not just visiting here and there and going out every now and then, but actually being fundamentally understanding the community that you're involved in," explains June.

June highlights poverty as a systemic issue causing many societal problems and argues for viewing Early Years education through a social justice lens.

Terrific two-year-olds

June emphasises the need to rebrand the "terrible twos" and provide better support for two-year-olds in Earyl Years settings, especially with the expansion of funded places. She highlights the importance of understanding the developmental stage of two-year-olds, including their brain development and the disconnect between their desires and physical abilities. June stresses the need for educators to manage transitions, establish routines, and provide a secure emotional environment for two-year-olds.

"Their brains are telling them that they want to be able to say things and be able to do things and their bodies and quite got there yet," says June, of two-year-olds, "And so that frustration kind of comes as a result of them just getting so frustrated that they just can't handle it. Our job is to help them manage that and to regulate that and to co regulate alongside them. To make them feel secure and to make them feel that their emotions, which is so powerful and so volcanic, are actually controlled in a way that's loving and caring and helps them to move through this phase."

Tiny chair drawing with a smily face

Pull up a chair

Start listening now

Listen on SpotifyWatch on YouTube